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Wednesday, May 13, 2009

"Follow The Leader" Discussion

[Listen to this episode!] [Subscribe to the MP3 feed via iTunes]

the JoshMeister and fellow LOST fans discuss Season 5 Episode 15, "Follow The Leader" and take a look at what we might see in the Season 5 finale.

Season 5 Episode 15 "Follow The Leader" notes:
  • 1977
    • Eloise figures out that Daniel is really her son from the future
    • Charles Widmore captures Jack and Kate
    • Eloise orders to have them put in her tent, and tells Charles that they're not from the DHARMA Initiative

  • 2007
    • Ben explains Richard Alpert to Sun: "He's a kind of advisor. And he has had that job for a very, very long time."
    • Sun shows Richard the photograph of the DHARMA recruits from when Jin, Sawyer, Juliet, Dan, and Miles went back in time
      • Richard says to Sun that he remembers them because "I watched them all die."
        • Did Richard survive the explosion of the hydrogen bomb even though he was there to see it?
        • Will they get stuck in 1977 and die in the Purge?
        • Will they get killed in a battle between Hostiles and DHARMA before the Purge?
        • Will we see them all die in the Season 5 finale?

  • 1977
    • Kate doesn't like the idea of rewriting history so Flight 815 never crashed, saying "It was not all misery." Jack says "Enough of it was." Kate starts crying.
      • Kate is probably thinking about her temp marriage to Jack, being a mom to Aaron
      • Kate would have been jail
    • Eloise believes Jack and says she'll take him to the hydrogen bomb, but she says it's buried underneath where the DHARMA Initiative has built their city

    • Radzinsky threatens to kill Sawyer if he doesn't reveal where Kate is

    • Charles to Richard: "Tell me why this man [Daniel] looks familiar to me."
    • Richard says that Charles and Eloise have a complicated relationship

  • 2007
    • John wants Richard to take him to see Jacob after their errand — to see the beechcraft plane (Yemi's)
    • John instructs Richard what to say to time-skipping John Locke during the time jumps
      • How does John know at what precise moment his past self would be walking out of the jungle?! Ben asks him, and John says "The Island told me. Hasn't it ever told you things?"
    • Richard seems kind of angry at Ben when Locke says that he died and hints at Ben

  • 1977
    • Pierre Chang tries to get them off the Island
    • Radzinsky makes Sawyer draw a map to "exactly where the Hostiles are" in exchange for Sawyer and Juliet being put on the sub with the women and children to get taken off the Island
      • Will Sawyer give an accurate map?
        • Probably not — what reason would he have to help Radzinsky after the beatings and death threats?
        • XsavagistX: "purposely wrong, or most of DHARMA's artillery will be gone when the Hostiles enter DHARMAville"

    • Kate tries to walk away because she thinks that Jack is going to get them killed, an Other prepares to shoot Kate in the back, and Sayid pops up out of the jungle and shoots the Other
      • Finally, Sayid returns!
    • Kate leaves to find the rest of their people to get them to help stop Jack

    • Sawyer: "We'll buy Microsoft. And we'll bet Cowboys in the '78 Superbowl. We're gonna be rich."

    • Richard and Jack go swimming under a waterfall — the Hostiles know of an opening on the other side — Eloise and Sayid follow
    • They wind up in "the tunnels" — secret passageways with hieroglyphs all over the place
      • Guest 8: "same place that black cloud lives"

  • 2007
    • John: "Is this everyone?"
    • Richard: "Well, there's another group at the temple."
    • John addresses the group that's there and tells them that they're all going to go see Jacob
      • Why would he do this?
    • Richard to Ben: "I'm starting to think John Locke is going to be trouble."
    • Ben to Richard: "Why do you think I tried to kill him?"

  • 1977
    • Kate got caught and is getting sent off the Island on the same sub as Sawyer and Juliet — neither of them seem very pleased because they planned to run off together
    • The sub leaves the Island

    • Eloise: "Well, now what?"

  • 2007
    • Ben tells John Locke that "This pilgrimage makes [Richard] uncomfortable"
    • Ben: "Then why are we going to Jacob?"
    • John: "So I can kill him."
      • Mormegil: "Maybe Jacob isn't part of the Island"
      • XsavagistX: "hes imprisoned. theres a comic by Warren Ellis like 2 years ago that has a similar 'ash' circle enclosing a spirit in. the Warren Ellis comic is 'Fell' that goes over the ash/imprisonment circle. i think Ellis says it was a southeast asian ritual in the comic. its worth checking out for a possible idea"
      • baileybear: "Josh do you think Jacob wants to be killed? Because he asked John to Help Him"
      • Guest 8: "jacob could be during when the big island explosion happen and in some interdimensional limbo. can't die."
      • Mormegil: "Maybe Jacob is sort of a father figure, since father killing seems to be important"
        • baileybear: "Father of the island?"
      • jennielynn: "miles is going to work ghostbusting"
      • danzam: "Locke had Sawyer kill his father,he cheated so now he has to kill him again himself so Jacob is............" [the real Sawyer?]
      • jennielynn: "i realy feeling if ben cant see or hear jacob it is because the outhers are a threat"
      • Guest 8: "jacob could be what they called the entity. it could be anybody. they see his actions but not his words. richard & ben may be worried john might uncover their lies."
      • Mormegil: "My guess is Ben can't see Jacob, and is just making it up. Jacob can't leave the Cabin, and since nobody can hear/see him, he's effectively trapped. If Jacob has nobody hearing/listening to him, he needs help."
      • icebird: "what I want to know is why Locke even told Ben. That was such a TV moment. Why would you really tell Ben that when Ben could easily go and tell Richard"
        • Guest 8: "doesn't mean john will kill jacob. he could be lying to ben. we'll find out next episode."
        • The last time John revealed something major to Ben, Ben killed him! Locke really ought to know Ben better than to trust him with secrets
      • jennielynn: "james and jack are name's that come from jacob i beleave so maybe it is one of them if i had to pick one now it would be james"
      • icebird: "Or there is no Jacob. I've always thought Jacob was just an idea to make people believe there was a divine intervention going on"
        • What about the voice Locke heard? Or the flash of a human form that we the viewers saw?
      • jennielynn: "john is testing richard"
      • natalie_in_seattle: "I think John is manipulating Ben....getting him to react the way the island needs him to" and also said "I think John is Jacob"
      • diesel929: "maybe aaron is jacob sent back in time"
      • Mormegil: "Oooh, that's why Ben has to kill Jacob. He has to kill the original Jacob, and his ghost becomes The Jacob..."
      • Guest 8: "jacob may be tied plot-wise somehow for the group to go back in time to save the rest of the group. the two events are linked someway across time."
      • Mormegil: "I just shared my theory on Jacob being dead to my wife. She suggests Locke=Jacob, so he's going to kill himself to become Jacob."
        • XsavagistX: "he wants to scare Hurley really bad putting his eyeball up to the window"
          • Funny theory, but Jorge Garcia (Hurley) confirmed in an interview that it was NOT Terry O'Quinn (Locke) whose eyeball we saw in the cabin scene
        • jennielynn: "he already dead in theroy. so he is ready to take is his spot (already)"
      • Theories from AstroJones at Sledgeweb: http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2009/05/5x15-going-to-kill-jacob.php

    • icebird: "Do you guys think the 'war' Widmoore was referring to now is going to be the people in the future saving the island vs. the past trying to destroy it?"
      • diesel929: "how do ilana and bram play into all this? is taht box empty and they are going to take something from the island or did they bring something to the island?"
      • Guest 8: "the war may also be trying to change what ever happened versus keeping things as they were. could be the same thing."

    • natalie_in_seattle: "Well clearly what Jack and Sayid are attempting to do did not work"
      • I agree because it would create a major paradox and nullify everything in the first 5 out of 6 seasons of the show!
        • diesel929: "i dont think anything is clear"
      • jennielynn: "i think it will be funny if jack is the reason everything goes wrong. course correcting"
        • If Jack *had* saved Ben's life it would have altered the course of the future, so Jack's attempts to far to change the future have been futile

    • Mormegil: "I think [the hydrogen bomb will] be the cause of the incident."

    • natalie_in_seattle: "the H-bomb detonation attempt is so wacky.....how could it work.....but then again Sayid might know"
      • icebird: "ohh, you're right natalie, that's probably exactly why they put Sayid in that cave. He probably would understand how to use the H-bomb"

    • Guest 8: "they could bring daniel back to life like they did ben & ask him. or at least check the journal. jack did hint there are answers in it."

    • Someone said (sorry, I didn't write down the name): "maybe she has her own journal that lets her know no matter what she does things turn out the same so maybe she gets the course correcting form herself"

    • natalie_in_seattle: "how old is daniel? because it seems like he should be born already, well in 1977 anyway"

    • jennielynn: "maybe she has her own journal that lets her know no matter what she does things turn out the same so maybe she gets the course correcting form herself"
      • XsavagistX: "yeah, wouldnt she have his Journal? and thats why she doesnt know what will happen now (last episode) that he 'died' in his present?"

  • Screenshots and Easter Eggs:
    • Is Eloise currently pregnant?
      • AstroJones from Sledgeweb's site says that Charles said to Ellie: "not in your condition" while touching her abdomen (here's a YouTube video to prove it)
        • icebird: "ah, so she named her son Daniel... because she killed a guy named Daniel"
          • Guest 8: "eloise all this time could have been preparing her son to be smarter in order to change what happened indirectly. also explains why she didn't want anybody involved with him. as in no girlfriends."
            • On the other hand, Eloise knows all about course correcting — refer to her conversation with Desmond when his consciousness time-traveled
    • Hieroglyphics in the tunnels:
SPOILERS:
  • Preview for the season finale:
    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPb2rt8w0ng
    • "Jack has a bomb. He could kill everyone on the Island"
    • Sayid has the bomb dismantled
    • Jack to Sawyer: "Being here is our destiny."
    • Sawyer to Jack: "I don't speak destiny."
    • Sun: "We have to stop him."
    • Jack: "What the hell are you doing?"
    • Frank Lapidus: "What's in the box?"
    • Ilana's box is opened (we can't see what's inside)
    • Juliet to Sawyer: "I saw you look at her."
    • Sawyer to Juliet: "I'm with you."
    • Jack shoots a gun into DHARMA village
    • Richard: "There can only be one leader on the Island."
    • Ben: "This is it!"
    • Jack to Kate: "Are you with me on this?"
  • From SpoilerFix (WARNING: don't click this link unless you want to risk being majorly spoiled!)
    • Episodes 16 and 17 (Season Finale): "The Incident"
      • Possible meaning of the title from Mormegil: "Anybody suggest the incident is simply the H-bomb going off? So once again trying to stop something happening causes it?"

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