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Monday, February 08, 2010

Season 6 Premiere "LA X" Discussion

[Listen to this episode!] [Subscribe to the MP3 feed via iTunes]

the JoshMeister, Master Nak, Congested, and fellow LOST fans discuss the premiere episode of the final season of LOST, "LA X" Parts 1 and 2.

Season 6 Episodes 1 and 2 "LA X" Parts 1 and 2 notes:

2004 alternate timeline ("flash sideways" in the executive producers' terminology), Oceanic Flight 815:
  • Jack on airplane?
  • it worked??!  Rose and Bernard
  • Desmond on plane!  He never got stuck on Island because Jack and Juliet sunk it?
  • island under water
    • jennielynn has a different theory: Desmond was in Jack's head
2007, Island:
  • Kate in tree
  • can't hear
  • Island didn't sink yet??  what caused it to sink?
  • runs into Miles
  • Swan hatch is imploded - they're in 2007
  • Jack is in dirt
  • Sawyer is mad at Jack because Juliet is dead
[On the live podcast, the JoshMeister, Congested from Audibly Lost, and Master Nak discuss their understanding of what's going on with relation to the timelines, time travel theory, etc.  Master Nak compares the way time travel works in the Back to the Future movies compared to how it seems to work on LOST.]

2004 alternate timeline, Oceanic Flight 815:
  • Sawyer sees Kate in handcuffs
  • Artz gets Hurley to do his Mr. Cluck's commercial Australian accent
  • Arzt asks Hurley
  • Hurley: lottery
  • Hurley: nothing bad ever happens to me
2007, Island:
  • Juliet is alive under rubble!!
  • Sayid is dying, is afraid of where he'll end up because of torturing people etc.
  • Jacob: "Hello, Hugo. Got a minute?"
2004 alternate timeline, Oceanic Flight 815:
  • Boone talking to Locke, Neil Frogurt sleeping in the seat between them
2007, Island:
  • Fake Locke: "You can stop staring at the fire.  Jacob's gone.  He's gone."
    • Where was Jacob's body?  Shouldn't there have been some charred remains in the fire pit?
  • Ben: "Why didnt he fight back?  Why did he let me just kill him?"
  • Fake Locke: "I guess he knew he was beaten."
    • Or maybe Jacob did it on purpose, à la Obi-Wan Kenobi: "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."  After Obi-Wan's death he communicates to Luke through the Force, somewhat similar to how Jacob can now communicate his will through Hurley's gift of being able to see and speak with dead people
      • "There will be white smoke.  I believe that is what John saw in Season 1" -jennielynn
  • Richard shows Ben the dead body of the real John Locke
  • Jacob tells Hurley that Jin won't be able to see him because he died an hour ago by an "old friend"
    • Who was the old friend to whom he was referring, Ben or the nemesis/Man in Black?
    • Jacob tells Hurley to get Jin to take Sayid and the rest to the temple, where they'll be safe, and bring the guitar case
      • Jin had been there with the French team
2004 alternate timeline, Oceanic Flight 815:
  • Cindy asks for a doctor
  • Charlie is near dead in the airplane lavatory - a negative side effect of this alternate version of 2004
  • Jack saves him, Charlie says "terrific" -- tried to kill himself by blocking his airway with a bag of heroin
2007, Island:
  • Bram and his friends battle with Jacob and get killed
  • Shoot at Fake Locke, disappears and leaves bullet behind
  • Bram tried putting an ash ring around himself and the monster doesn't cross it, but shakes the room and knocks Bram out of the circle so he can kill him
    • There was an ash circle around "Jacob's cabin" -- it turns out that it wasn't Jacob's after all -- it was meant to keep Jacob's nemesis (AKA the smoke monster) trapped
      • Does Christian work for Jacob, and if so, did he reclaim the cabin?  Or did Christian work for the Man in Black?
      • In the Season 5 finale, Bram and Ilana's team discovered that the ash circle around the cabin had been disturbed and nobody had been there for a long time
        • Were they talking about Jacob or the Man in Black not having been there?
      • Was it Jacob or the Man in Black's voice that John Locke heard say "Help me" in the episode Cabin Fever?
  • Fake Locke appears again and says to Ben, "I'm sorry you had to see my like that."
  • Sawyer rescues Juliet but she's dying
  • Julet: "I have to tell you something that's really really important." (then she dies)
  • Sawyer and Kate glare at Jack as Sawyer holds her lifeless body. Sawyer: "You did this."
2004 alternate timeline, Oceanic Flight 815:
  • Charlie is mad at Jack for saving his life
  • plane lands safely
  • men come on board to arrest Charlie
  • Locke wheeled off plane
The plane timeline can't fit with Island timeline because Richard Alpert told Sun in Season 5 that he watched Jin etc. die, but then Richard is alive on the Island in 2007, and yet in 2004 the island is sunk and Desmond was never in the hatch.  Even in 2007 that statement from Richard doesn't seem to make much sense, so I wonder if it was a mistake by the writers.

2007, Island:
  • Sawyer is going to bury Juliet with Miles
    • "Dead is dead" according to Richard and Ben
  • Under temple dead people, packs, one has book, Montand has arm missing (Jin knows arm was ripped off when attacked by black smoke)
  • Hole in floor, where Ben fell in?
  • Kate hears noises, wanders off, disappears suddenly and Jack tries to find her, then Hurley and Jin are suddenly missing
  • Someone knocks out Jack
  • Men take them all at gunpoint - Jacob's people?
  • Hurley: "I guess this is the temple."
2004 alternate timeline, after landing:
  • Kate undoes handcuffs, escapes from Edward Mars
  • Sawyer knows she was in cuffs on plane
  • there's a "341" - they're looking for her
2007, Island:
  • Sawyer asks Miles to tell him what Juliet was about to say (Miles talks to dead people)
  • "It worked.  That's what she wanted to tell you.  It worked."
    • So where are they trapped?
  • Man speaks Japanese, Cindy answers in English that they were on the first plane, Oceanic 815, with me
  • They were going to shoot them, but Hurley says Jacob sent us, and shows guitar case as proof - giant ankh inside, Japanese man breaks open and reads note inside.  He asks their names.  He starts to walk away, and Hurley asks what the note says.  Japanese man's translator tells Hurley that the paper said that if Sayid dies, "we're all in a lot of trouble"
2004 alternate timeline, after landing:
  • Jin apprehended for taking too much undeclared money, Sun claims she can't speak English
2007, Island:
  • Translator: "The water isn't clear -- it happened"
    • What happened?  They were surprised later to find out about Jacob's death, so that's not what they thought happened
  • Japanese man cuts hand, puts in water
  • "If we do this there are risks" (referring to attempting to heal Sayid)
    • like "consequences" of healing Ben as a boy?
  • they hold Sayid under water until hourglass runs out, he dies
  • Jack gives chest compressions like he did to Charlie, Kate tells him to stop like she did after Charlie had been hung by Ethan
    • Why would Kate say this when Jack saved Charlie's life in spite of her protests?  Shouldn't she have learned her lesson and let the doctor do his thing?
    • But stupidly, Jack listens to her this time and stops giving chest compressions
2004 alternate timeline, after landing:
  • Sayid looks at Nadia's photograph
  • Kate tries to escape the airport without being identified, but guards are looking at a paper, presumably her photo
  • Kate gets in cab with Claire Littleton(!) and her driver is the actor who plays the puppetmaster guy from Heroes (who's also connected with a blonde main character named Claire) -- David H. Lawrence XVII is the actor's name
    • Is Claire pregnant, and in Los Angeles to give up her baby as in the original timeline?
    • "i'll wager $5 that kate holds Claire hostage and then she gives birth, and Kate helps" - Josh "Spivvy" from Lost Flashbacks
    • "kate adopts him! in the cab" - Congested
2007, Island:
  • Hurley tells them Jacob is dead, they put ash around the complex and fire a warning rocket
  • Translator explains to Hurley they're not trying to keep them in, they're trying to keep "him" out.
  • Hurley asks who, and they cut to a scene with Fake Locke (we don't get the guy's name!)
  • Fake: "John Locke was very confused when you killed him"
  • Fake Locke says last thought in John's head when Ben killed him: "I don't understand"
  • Fake Locke: "John was the only one who didn't want to leave, only one who realized how pitiful the life he left behind actually was"
  • Ben: "What do you want?"
  • Fake Locke: "Well that's the great irony ben because I want the thing John Locke didn't.  I want to go home."
    • Is his home off the Island?  If so, is there ash surrounding the Island, preventing him from leaving?  (For that matter, why is he so afraid of ash?)
    • Is his home the temple?  They're keeping him out?
  • Hurley to Sayid: "Goodbye, Dude.  If you ever want to talk, I'm around."  Miles shakes head, Hurley says "What?" Miles says "Nothing."
    • Can Miles hear Sayid's thoughts or not?  Was Sayid really dead?
2004 alternate timeline, after landing:
  • Jack's father's casket was never on the plane!
    • Was his coffin on the plane on the Island then?  Or did something different happen?
    • "Christian" (who is most likely the smoke monster/nemesis) encouraged Locke to leave the Island - because he knew that Locke would die and would provide a loophole so he could kill Jacob?
      • "Jacks dad is a bad guy because he told Sun to wait & go with the Fake Lock aKa MIB" -RatFace
  • Locke: how could they know where your father is? they didn't lose your father. they just lost his body.
  • Locke says the bag they lost was his knives
  • Locke says his condition is irreversible, Jack says nothing is irreversible - if you ever want a consult, just give me a call.  It's on the house.
2007, Island:
  • Richard sees rocket, Nemesis comes out, they point guns at him, Richard tells them not to shoot
  • Fake Locke: "Hello, Richard. It's good to see you out of those chains"
    • Pirate slave from The Black Rock ship?
  • Richard says in recognition, "You?"
    • Fake Locke: "Me." [knocks Richard out]
  • Fake Locke to The Others: "I am very disappointed in all of you."
    • What does this mean???
      • That they didn't figure out who he was?
      • That they took the wrong side?  They should have been on the Man in Black's side, not Jacob's?
  • Fake Locke picks up Richard and walks off
  • Translator: "You're Shephard?  We need to speak to you privately."
  • Sayid wakes up and says "What happened?"
    • "Is he Jacob in Sayid's body?" -Congested
In Season 5 Episode 15, "Follow the Leader", Richard tells Sun that he watched Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Jin die 30 years ago.  How could this be?  We didn't see him anywhere near The Swan's construction site.  Was Richard hiding in the bushes somewhere?  Was he watching on a hidden security camera?  Probably not the latter; as far as we know, only The DHARMA Initiative has hidden cameras, and it was only after the Purge that The Others took over the use of their cameras.  Richard from 2007 said he watched them die in 1977, yet the only time we've seen them die (or what might have been assumed to have killed them from the perspective of someone living in 1977) was the detonation of the hydrogen bomb.  However, after seeing the Season 6 premiere, if we're to believe that the detonation of the bomb is what sunk the Island, then there's no way that that Richard from 2007 could have witnessed the explosion in 1977!  If Richard from the new timeline in 2004 had somehow survived, he could have claimed to witness their deaths because every mortal person on the Island would probably have been killed by the blast or by the Island sinking.  But Richard from the 2007 timeline could not have witnessed their deaths in 1977 because their detonation of the bomb (the only thing that could be described as causing their deaths) created a new parallel timeline, separate from the one that 2007 Richard is living in!

Could the explosion of a hydrogen bomb that size really cause an entire island to sink?  Are we making a false assumption by presuming that the explosion sunk the Island somehow?  It may be possible that some later event sunk the Island.

"Notice they did not show Michael or Walt, or Vincent the dog during the whole flight. Not even when the plane landed there was no sign of that family" -RatFace

Screenshots and Easter Eggs:

Desmond's book:
Book found underground:
Rose's magazine:

  • YouTube: http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2010/02/preview-trailer-for-6x02-what-.php
  • Shots are fired
  • Sawyer points a gun, appears to be leaving the temple, and says "Don't come after me" (to Kate, presumably)
  • Sun and Frank walk past a series of graves (at the Oceanic 815 camp site?)
  • Fake Locke picks up a knife
  • Kate: "I can bring him back" (referring to Sawyer?)
  • Jack grabs Kate's arm and says: "Be careful"
  • Kate sits next to Sawyer on a beach
  • Sawyer cries
  • Jack: (to the people at the temple) "Who are you?"
  • Kate: "He doesn't care about any of us" (who?)
  • Jin: (to Kate?) "Who do you care about?"
  • Kate punches a man in the face
Episode title: "What Kate Does" (a reference to Season 2 Episode 9, "What Kate Did")

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