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Saturday, March 17, 2007

"Par Avion" Discussion and Spoilers for "The Man From Tallahassee" and More

[Listen to this episode!] [Subscribe to the MP3 feed via iTunes]

A brief synopsis of this week's podcast episode: Josh and guests Big-O, Curt Yanko, Amanda, and Master Nak discuss "Par Avion," lots of great spoilers for the upcoming episode "The Man From Tallahassee," plus bonus spoilers on what is yet to come in Season 3.

This week's episode is longer than usual; please send me feedback about whether you prefer the usual short episodes or the more in-depth discussions of the show: thelostmeister at gmail dot com.

More detailed show notes—and some additional things that I forgot to mention in the podcast—are coming soon! Subscribe to the blog feed and stay tuned.

*UPDATE , 20 March 2007*
Here are some more complete show notes from the 17 March podcast.
  • We now know that Christian Shephard is Claire's dad
    • Until Claire met her dad, she apparently thought that he had died when she was 2
    • For some, the fact that Christian Shephard was Claire's father was a big revelation, while it seems that many long-time fans expected it because of a scene from "Two for the Road"
  • The level of exposition on the show (that is, spelling things out so the viewers will make connections more easily) is increasing
  • An analysis of the conversation between Kate and Mikhail
    • What are the qualifications for being on "the list"?
    • Is Jacob "Him"?
    • Mikhail indicated that he knew Locke previously, and that he was paralyzed
      • Did he know Locke personally, or did he just have information about him like Juliet had about Jack?
  • Who are island natives among The Others?
    • Ben claims to be
    • We know Juliet was recruited
    • Mikhail claims he was recruited
    • What is the timeline for the purge? Was Juliet recruited by the DHARMA Initiative or by The Others? It sounds like Mikhail was recruited by The Others.
  • Was Kelvin the *real* last surviving member of the DHARMA Initiative, or was he an Other?
  • What sources of information on the show can we really trust?
    • Probably not Mikhail; we know he lied about at least one thing
    • Definitely we can trust flashbacks, e.g. Juliet's
    • Possibly Karl, who rebelled agaist the Others and seemed to be speaking truthfully
  • Is there any significance to Claire's mom being a librarian?
  • Is Claire's mom still alive? Christian is dead, so would her life support still be funded somehow? Would the Australian government fund it since it's against the law to pull the plug?
  • Locke stole C4 explosives from The Flame
    • This indicates he intentionally blew up the hatch, whether by entering 77 or manually
    • Locke's destroying the hatch is similar to when he knocked out Sayid in Season 1 when Sayid was trying to do the triangulation in an attempt to communicate with the outside world
    • Why would Locke spoil everyone else's chance of leaving the island? If someone came to rescue them, he wouldn't have to leave the island.
  • Christian sang to Claire when she was a baby
    • We can probably assume this was "Catch a Falling Star"
      • Does this indicate that Christian might have connections with The Others? When Claire was in The Staff, the mobile in the baby's room played "Catch a Falling Star."
  • Jack played catch with Tom
    • This was probably the first time Jack "had fun" with The Others - he kind of hesitated before spiking the ball
  • The Barracks seems to be the "Otherville" we saw in the first episode of Season 3
  • Danielle did in fact go with Sayid and the group beyond the pylons
    • This contradicts her claim that she avoids dangerous situations involving The Others
    • Where is Alex right now?
  • Mikhail said it's currently possible for them to leave the island via the submarine, but that they wouldn't be able to find their way back
  • Locke doesn't know about Claire's sea bird plan or Penny Widmore's apparent plot to find the island
NOT discussed on the podcast:
  • Mikhail: "The man who brought all of my people here" - Who are "all Mikhail's people"? All of The Others? Are other Russians on the island?
SPOILERS discussed in the podcast:
  • From last week's U.S. preview for the next episode:
    • We'll find out how Locke became paralyzed
    • Locke's true agenda will apparently be revealed; we see him aiming a gun at Ben, who is lying in his bed
      • I assume that Locke is angry because Ben conned him into thinking that he didn't enter the numbers in the Swan station, which led Locke to begin to lose faith in the island and ultimately destroy the hatch
    • Ben: "I know you spent four years in a wheelchair and I know how you ended up in it"
    • Locke says he's not there [at the Barracks] for Jack
    • Locke appears to be looking down a hole, possibly the entrance into the submarine
    • Locke has his hands in the air as if in surrender, and behind him a submarine (the only submarine, the Galaga?) blows up
      • Was this sub the only way The Others had of leaving the island?
  • The official ABC synopsis for the upcoming episode, "The Man from Tallahassee": "Ben tries to persuade a determined Locke to call off his destructive plan by offering him some of the secrets of the island, and Kate's reunion with Jack does not go off as planned when she discovers that he has made a deal with 'The Others.'"
  • Tom, Alex, Richard Alpert (Juliet's recruiter—why is he in this episode??), and Anthony Cooper (Locke's dad) are all in the upcoming episode
  • I theorized that we'll find out eventually that Anthony Cooper is "the real Sawyer"—that is, the man who conned James "Sawyer" Ford's parents
  • Sayid is going to meet Alex
  • On March 28th, Boone and Shannon will be back!
  • According to TV Guide, in an episode that will air in mid-April, Jack will reunite with the other survivors on the beach!
  • On April 11th, we may see connections between Juliet's role as a fertility doctor and Sun's baby (does Juliet go to the beach with Jack?)
  • Cassidy, the mother of Sawyer's daughter, shows up in a flashback other than Sawyer's
  • The love triangle between Kate, Jack, and Sawyer isn't over
  • There will be at least 2 more deaths before the end of this season
    • Most likely not Jack or Sawyer, according to TV Guide
    • Charlie may be one of the ones to die this season; Dominic Monaghan has indicated that he wouldn't be upset if he left the show, indicating that he sees it as a job
      • The executive producers hinted that Desmond saving Charlie multiple times may result in other kinds of changes
SPOILERS that were NOT discussed in the podcast:
  • From the Canadian promo for "The Man from Tallahassee":
    • Locke says "This is going to be more complicated than we thought."
    • Kate says they need to rescue Jack, and Sayid says "He may not want to be rescued."
    • Jack tells Kate "Get out of here. Right now."
    • An Other forces Kate to the ground, someone asks her "Who else is with you?" Jack instructs Kate, "Just answer the question," and an Other cocks a gun aimed at her.
    • Locke aims a gun at Ben, who is in bed, and he says "I'm not looking for Jack. I'm looking for the submarine."

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3 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I prefer the shorter format

Monday, March 19, 2007 11:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I did enjoy the longer in depth podcast. (Maybe not an hour and 15 minutes) But, maybe like 40-45 minutes would be good.

Monday, March 19, 2007 4:56:00 PM  
Blogger MasterNak said...

Since I don't have my own Lost blog, and Josh didn't make a new entry for his podcast on the Black Rock, I decided to post my own comments on that podcast here:

The one thing I remember and wanted to mention the most was the part where Josh and Curt talked about Ben having a certain omniscience, a knowledge of everything that occurs on the island. In fact, I think you guys (but if I remember correctly, mainly Curt) went as far as to say that his mental powers (bordering on science fiction-level) could be how he knows about the lives of the survivors, not TV broadcasts or anything like that.
My comment on that is - and they even mentioned this in the episode - if Ben is so smart - if he has such an intimate connection with the island - how come Locke is the one not in a wheelchair and Ben is? Either Ben isn't as smart as he seems, or... crazy theory alert...

BEN IS FAKING BEING PARALYZED TO GET LOCKE ON HIS SIDE.

When I first considered this, I thought it was a totally crazy notion - why in the world would he go through the trouble of pretending to be paralyzed in front of ALL the Others just so he could eventually get to Locke? Well, this would certainly go along with the idea that Ben has super mental powers - he could have maybe even foreseen that Locke would come to Otherville. Also, if you listen closely to Ben's conversations with Locke, you could say he not only manipulated him into blowing up the sub, but also into sympathizing with his handicap.

Side note - when I first heard Ben ask for "The Man from Tallahassee," I thought he was referring to the sub. Maybe Richard made sure the sub was surfaced?
Another theory on that - from Wikipedia - "Tallahassee" is a Muskogean Indian word often translated as "old fields" or "old town." Could "The Man from Tallahassee" have been someone from a second/older town of Others? ("Old field" could also be appropriate, considering that Otherville is located in a field surrounded by mountains.) Or maybe this is referring to some prison that the Others have (where they kept Anthony Cooper)?

Here are some lines that point out Ben's manipulation of Locke:

Ben: "I just want some diginity. You, of all people, should understand what it means to want some diginity." -Appealing to John's sympathy

Ben: "I know you, John Locke."
John (shocked): "You don't know me at all."
"...I know you spent the four years prior to your arrival on this island in a wheelchair, and I know how you ended up in it... Tell me John. Did it hurt?"
"I felt my back break. What do you think?" -Appealing to John's emotions, distracting him from rational thought - obviously reminding him of his anger toward his father.
---
"It wasn't easy, you know. Being in that hatch with you all that time, knowing you had no business walking around. Knowing I couldn't even ask you about it without telling you who I really was."
"So ask me now."
Ben knew who Locke was even before he was captured, more evidence that he perhaps has advanced mental powers.
---
"You're not recovering as fast as you'd like. How long's it been since Jack fixed you? A week? Now that I think about it... how'd you get sick in the first place?"
"Are you afraid it will go away John? Is that why you want to destroy the submarine, because you know if you ever leave this island, you'll be back in the chair?" - Again, appealing to his emotions - fear
---
"They're here because they want to be here! Some of them are just not ready to make a full... commitment yet. But you, John, you've already made that commitment. And now you have a choice. Because if you stop and you think, I can show you things. Things I know you want to see very badly."
Very clearly, Ben knows that John wants to stay on the island. He has "already made that [full] commitment." And if he allies himself with Ben, Ben will "show [him] things."

"Let me put it so you'll understand."
Then he says "Picture a box." He doesn't say that what he is describing is literally a box. He is just describing it how John would understand it - using a metaphor.
---
"You're a hyopcrite. A Pharisee. You don't deserve to be on this island. If you had any idea what this place really was... you wouldn't be puttin' chicken in your refrigerator."
"You've been here 80 days, John; I've been here my entire life. So how is it that you think you know this island better than I do?"
"Because you're in a wheelchair... and I'm not."
-It all centers around Ben being in the wheelchair. The more and more I think about it, this does not seem like a coincidence. Ben and Locke's entire interaction in this episode would have been completely different if we changed that one detail - that Ben could now walk.

Another side note - you mentioned you thought John had been sweating in the sub. John's entire body is soaking wet when he returns from the sub. He could not have just been sweating - his pants were also soaked through entirely. Still, I don't think it is significant - I went frame by frame, and you can clearly see that the sub is still on the surface. He did not sink it. Why he would still be soaked, who knows. But it seems pretty certain that the sub did blow up.
---
Before I get to my main point, a couple more side notes - Could Ben's father have tried to kill him? Yes, he was born on the island. You drew the comparison between himself and Aaron. It seems like they were trying to hurt or kill Aaron before and even while they had Claire captive. Could a similar thing have happened to Ben? I'm not saying that Ben IS Aaron... that is still too much of a stretch at this point. But maybe Ben was also meant to have been experimented on/hurt/killed/whatever, as it seems like that was the intention with Aaron.

Also, John calls Anthony "Dad?" when he sees him. Pretty strange he'd use such an intimate term for his father, considering the guy tried to murder him.

Anyway, back to my main point and the quotes related to it-

"When I asked you earlier if it hurt when you suffered your injury, I think you misunderstood me. Seems fairly obvious... but I really wasn't asking about the physical pain... I wanted to know what it felt like when your own father tried to kill you. He's the reason you destroyed the submarine, isn't it? You're afraid. You're afraid of him, and this is the one place he can never find you; this is the one place he can never get to you."
"What do you want from me?"
This is the key-
"I don't know how it happened, John. But you seem to have some sort of communion with this island. And that makes you very, very important. You have no idea what you're talking about, of course, but, in time you will have a better understanding of things. So what do I want? I want to help you, John."
"Why?"
"Because I'm in a wheelchair, and you're not."

John has become "important" to Ben. "In time" he will understand... meaning Ben wants to keep John around. Again, Ben is making John think he wants John to help him get out of the wheelchair - simply further manipulation. Again, if Ben could walk, what reason would he have to convince John to help him?

Perhaps this second faction of "Others" that the producers previously mentioned in their podcast will be former members of the survivors. John could be the first convert of this new group.
I think we see hints of this in the preview for tomorrow's episode, also-
Sawyer says "They were working with the Others."
Not to mention that it seems like Sun is one of the Others. (This could even go back to my theory about her pregnancy. If she is working with the Others, it is even more likely that she was injected with the substance Juliet invented that made her pregnant.)
Sawyer says to her, "Are you gonna tell Jin?"
She replies "No... Because then we'd have to dig another grave!"
Then she attacks Sawyer.

I wanted to finish thinking this out and post it on Josh's blog before the next episode. Josh, and anyone else reading this comment, feel free to let me know what you think.
-Nak

Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:09:00 AM  

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